Saturday, February 15, 2014

The Artistry Debate

It's one of the most talked about topics in this sport, so perhaps I'm just beating the subject to death more by writing this post. But I wanted to talk about this (again) because of the rude things I read on tumblr, YouTube, etc on a daily basis. I honestly can't believe that this is still a topic that is being talked about after the multiple good debates I've seen . (There are some pretty good points out there.)



Before you begin reading this, I want to make it clear that this post is not in any way trying to persuade you that what I'm saying is the right answer. I just want to share my opinion on this topic because I think some people are looking at the with a closed mind. I always see people complaining about artistry (or lack thereof) and people have even gone as far to say certain gymnasts shouldn't win because they "can't dance." That statement in particular makes me angry for several reasons.

1. Artistry does not define who should win. In this day and age, it's about what you do and how you do it. The one who throws the biggest tricks and does them cleanly and consistently will win. I don't know about you, but I love the crazy-difficult skills! I'm not watching this sport to see the dancing! Besides, these girls are gymnasts...not dancers. Who says they have to move like professional ballet/contemporary dancers? They are suppose to be gymnasts!

2. What is artistry? Your answer is just an opinion. What you think is artistic might be totally different from what I think is artistic. A year ago I asked people to define what artistry is to them. Here is some of the responses I received. Again...these are all just personal opinions.


And as the king of choreography put it (Yes, I'm talking about Dominic Zito) "A floor routine doesn't need to 'be only elegant' to be considered artistic. Artistry is made up of several components: technique, musicality, movement quality, creativity, and performance ability." (Inside Gymnastics)


To me, artistry is the ability to perform and sell the routine- while being in sync with the music. Simone Biles does this. Laurie Hernandez does this. Llomincia Hall does this. Catherine Lyons does this. I could go on forever! My point is- artistry is not always about being the most graceful or having beautiful balletic lines. Sure it's nice to see, but unfortunately not everybody can move like that. I don't want to see Simone Biles doing Aliya Mustafina's floor routine! It just wouldn't look right! Every gymnast has to do a routine that works for them. Which leads me to my final point.

3. It's not that certain gymnasts are horrible dancers or that they aren't artistic, but a lot of the times the gymnast does not have the best choreography. (Which isn't necessarily their fault.) Sometimes that's all a gymnast needs! Look at Kyla Ross for example. She's a great dancer and has a beautiful routine that really suits her well. But as a kid, she use to be very stiff and boring. All it took was for someone to choreograph a routine that works for her style and bam- you have a masterpiece! People need to understand that everyone is different...especially when it comes to the artistic component of the sport.

So the next time you want to insult an athlete who works incredibly hard every single day and downgrade her accomplishments because you think she is a horrible dancer...please think again. There are so many different branches of artistry...and it's not fair to belittle someone and their accomplishments because they don't fit your standards. I now rest my case.

19 comments:

  1. I just wish the FIG would take a .1 deduction Every Time an athlete's choreography is Out Of Sync with the music, Every Time an athlete shows Simple Arm Waving or Simple Stepping as their choreography, Every Time an athlete Repeats Choreography or Stands Still at any point in time during their routine. That should separate the really intricate, flowing, in sync routines from the basic arm waving, walking around, stiff pose striking routines. AND the FIG should add another panel of judges for Artistry alone and when an athletes score pops up it should show D score (for difficulty) E score (for execution) and A Score (for artistry deductions)

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    1. An A score is not needed since you're describing deductions which can easily come out of the E score. Besides, would artistry be judged on vault and uneven bars? How would the A score be added to a gymnast's total score? If only to beam and floor, then floor and beam would be worth way more in the all-around and consideration of team building. A whole new score would throw WAG further out of balance; it would require total overhaul of the CoP. That would be really really difficult for the coaches and gymnasts, who spend years designing routines based on the rules found in the CoP. Anyway, much of what you're describing are deductions gymnasts can receive in the current CoP.

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    2. For instance, a gymnast can be discredited a total of 0.6 tenths on BB for insufficient artistry in the entire performance (lack of confidence, lack of personal style or uniqueness), insufficient rhythm and tempo (no variation in movements, speed, movements are disconnected with pauses).

      In addition to the artistry deductions, there are composition and choreography deductions which include failure to perform movements facing sidewards, with the torso on the beam, not using the whole equipment, and "lack of creativity in movement and transition." The emphasis here is increase the diversity of exercise (so every routine isn't jump on the beam, stand on the beam, flip, leap series, dismount).

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    3. On Floor, the same deductions are applied - but also there is now attention to musicality and music theory. The movements must mirror the music (the example the CoP uses is tango movements to tango music). I think this rule is almost unfortunate since it actually stifles creativity, but it may make the performance more believable since we would be hearing tango, and therefore expecting tango (and not a series of disconnected movements, posing, and jazz hands).

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    4. Did you not read the post? It says Artistry Deductions not additions. SO Floor and Beam scores would be even lower with A Score deductions included...Here's an example of someone's score...
      D Score = 6.0 E Score = 9.0 A Score = -1.2 Final Score = 13.800
      You see how the score shows -1.2 points lost in Artistry Alone? then that is added to the D and E score? Giving a Final Score?
      The FIG said before that there are now up to 8 tenths of a point that can be taken away for lack of artistry and I don't think they ever enforced these deductions because there were still routines with major artistry and dance problems making the podium. Even now I don't see them taking their alleged artistry deductions. That's why they need a separate panel for artistry deductions since the judges still only seem to be focusing on execution alone.

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  2. In regards to artistry, I like what Christine (the BBC gymnastic commentator) said in the 2013 floor finals at worlds "its a learnt routine, not a performed routine." and I do think that is what artistry is, its the ability to sell your performance, and not just go through the emotions. The ugliest choreo can look good if sold well, and the most beautiful choreo can look boring if the gymnast isn't selling it.

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  3. I agree with most you say, only your first point I find hard to agree with.. You say you don't need to be artistic to win and that the one who performs the biggest tricks the cleanest should win. But the sport is called artistic gymnastics for a reason! The part about how you HAVE to be artistic is even in the name of the sport.. And what artistic is, yeah everybody thinks different about that, but it's not just the biggest tricks that should win (which I think happens a lot these days). It's the total package.. And I really do think judges must be able to take more points away for not being artistic!

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    1. You are right, this is "artistic gymnastics" and I do think you should get a deduction for lack of artistry. However, I don't think lacking in artistry should prevent someone from winning. This is GYMNASTICS, which is mainly what gymnasts should be scored on. I understand having an artistry deduction, but it shouldn't be enough to separate a gymnast from gold and silver alone. In reality, it's more about the skills you do and how you do them. That should determine the winner...not how well you can dance!

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    2. I agree with Anonymous. The sport is called like that for a reason, if it was just the big tricks it would be called Trampoline and Tumbling, which is all about the big skills performed cleanly. You don't have to be a trained dancer to be artistic, like you said, artistry is not just balletic lines, is about selling a routine, and that includes dancing! I also think the FIG should deduct more for lacking artistry, nowadays, you're right, the one with the big and clean skills wins. However, you are wrong saying the sport is only "GYMNASTICS", it is ARTISTIC GYMNASTICS, and, I don't know about you, but I enjoy a routine when it has great tumbling AND great choreography. It should go together!

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  4. Yeah I agree, artistry is important in most situations.

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  5. I wouldn't call Kyla's floor routine a masterpiece...It's way far than that...to me she still looks stiff and boring. Granted she did improve substantially choreography-wise, but..I jus't cant get really into her.

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  6. It's called artistic gymnastics to differentiate it from other forms of gymnastics, not so it can be used by fans as an excuse for why they think certain gymnasts don't deserve to win or even medal. Gymnasts do simpler choreography/arm waving to conserve energy for the real focus of floor excersice - the acrobatic tumbling passes. No one can deny this is the main focus of the sport. This wouldn't be an issue if fans were happy with all the medal winners on floor exercise and the all around at worlds and Olympics, but they're not. So they leave rude comments about "lack of artistry," which sometimes just means that the winner isn't Russian or they don't like the girl's body type or look and wish that judges would discriminate by giving stockier girls like Simone and Shawn lower scores and more balletic gymnasts like Nastia and Aliya higher scores. This is something male gymnasts don't have to deal with....

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    1. Why are you so biased ?? Only because Biles is an american ?? I Like Mustafina and I'm not russian !!!

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  7. TO STOP EVERYONE'S COMPLAINING THE FIG SHOULD JUST DO AWAY WITH FLOOR MUSIC FOR WOMEN'S FLOOR LIKE MEN'S FLOOR!!! WHAT WOULD YOU ALL HAVE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THEN?!?! JUST A GYMNASTS' FORM I GUESS!

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  8. To be honnest it kind of annoys me how every american fan use the "artisty is subjective" excuse... Like every one says Biles is artistic because she sells her routine, but I'm sorry you can't do any crap you want and smile and call it artistic (not that I'm saying what simone does is crap but her routine isn't exactly a masterpiece) !

    I really don't understand why it is so difficult to american fan to accept that their gymnasts aren't artistic (well not every of them but most of them), it's not like it's a big deal and it's not like we're saying that you don't deserve any medal because of it, it's just that some people don't watch gymnastic for the tricks only but also for the artistic side of it, that's my case at least (nothing beats a routine with the complete package like Sui Lu's beam or Afan's floor) !
    Actually it's kind of a shame because gymnast like Maroney or Ross have a lot of potential on the artistic side too but they will never really work on this :(. I still think Ross is stiff and kind of boring (she did improve but she has a long way and her floor is certainly not a masterpiece).
    And no one mention beam of course, because catchy music can't save you there...
    But I don't have annything against american gymnast (i love them on vault !!!) I just find them boring most of the time and it's kind of a shame because artisty is the only area were they are really lacking and I would probably love them if they worked on that !

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  9. The sport is called ARTISTIC gymnastics. I rest my case.

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